Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

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Dead Phonic
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Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by Dead Phonic » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:08 pm

So the Sonor purists in all of us, points out that one of the things that sets Sonor german made drums apart from the pack is the vertical grain found on the inside and the outside of the shells. Today the best shells coming out of Aue are made using the CLTF procedure and have been for many years. This is defined on Sonor's website as Cross Laminated and Tension Free:

"In this SONOR special procedure the different layers are cross laminated, which means that the structure of the wooden grain crosses from layer to layer at a 90 degree angle. All layers are glued and pressed in oil heated molds (110 degrees Celsius), the result being a perfectly round and strong wooden shell which will keep its shape. Even when you cut it, it will stay in this radius. CLTF has a major influence on tuning stability and tone."

So this means that some of the internal layers of the German made shells are horizontal. So an asian made Sonor shell using CLFT; which has horizontal outer grain patterns also must have vertical layers inside as well. Outside of the wood material being used, and if both shells are made using CLFT; why would one shell with the final layer being vertical be better sounding then the other shell who's final layer is horizontal?

Again I am just wondering about the whole vertical grain mystic and not say Chinese maple vs Canadian maple or finer German craftsmanship vs made in China. Maybe this is just a stupid question........

stitchyHLD580ebony
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by stitchyHLD580ebony » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Nearly ALL plywood is cross laminated. That is its purpose, to create strength.
ALL commercial plywood is cross laminated.
Sonor German shells are 2/3's Vertical and 1/3 Horizontal, rather than 1/2 1/2.
Jeff

DrumPower
Melbourne, Australia

I have issues, my daughter's name is Makassar Ebony.
Luckily for my son, my wife would NOT agree to the name 'Mahogany Veneer Phonic Plus'

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Dead Phonic
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by Dead Phonic » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:29 pm

Your right that CL technology grew out of the construction industry and found its way into drum making. Good resource on that here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... lidz93T5Jg

So this process is normally done in odd numbered layers. So if german Sonor is 2/3 vertical then the asian stuff is 2/3 horizontal, safe to say and therefore makes the sonic difference cause the majority of the shell is vertical.

Interesting debate on the subject and some scientific information on the Acoustical Model of Anisotropy linked below. I own plenty of vertical grain Sonors myself, but many out there call the whole thing BS.

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/top ... tal-grain/

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jailer
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by jailer » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:03 pm

German shells are also undersized quite a bit. And Sonor swears by those "oil-heated presses". I don't know anything about what's going on with those.

They also used a different type of Seam in the past. It was an "S-Seam" instead of the straight. They abandoned it for drumsets, but I believe they kept it for the concert or marching. Probably for strength but I know they have a patent on it which is interesting to note.

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jackplaysdrums
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by jackplaysdrums » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:31 pm

jailer wrote:German shells are also undersized quite a bit.

And Sonor swears by those "oil-heated presses". I don't know anything about what's going on with those.

Undercutting of the shells for sure has an impact. The presses they use too, they are very old!!

Also the "special recipe" glue used. :D
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jailer
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by jailer » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:47 pm

jackplaysdrums wrote:
Also the "special recipe" glue used. :D
[/quote]

Yeah.. i remember they talking about that in the OLD ARTICLES posted.

stitchyHLD580ebony
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by stitchyHLD580ebony » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:03 pm

I'd say the vast majority of plywood would half/half horizontal and Vertical.
One then the other all the way.
Not Sonor German stuff.
Jeff

DrumPower
Melbourne, Australia

I have issues, my daughter's name is Makassar Ebony.
Luckily for my son, my wife would NOT agree to the name 'Mahogany Veneer Phonic Plus'

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Dead Phonic
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by Dead Phonic » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:12 pm

Picked up a cheap Yamaha kit for my kids school music program and while cleaning it up I noticed the internal ply was vertical grain Luan or Philippine mahagony. This was their bottom of line budget kit from 1990 made in Indonesia. I had thought that this was an exclusive hallmark of Sonor, but think this was a common construction method of all these cheap Luan kits from what I have read. You don't see this material used anymore being replaced by basswood and poplar. BTW, after cleaning and new G2s it did not sound bad. Tuned up nice, but the snare is just hopeless.

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jailer
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Re: Sonor vertical grain magic and CLTF

Post by jailer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:15 am

Dead Phonic wrote:. I had thought that this was an exclusive hallmark of Sonor,.
The inner vertical was possibly exclusive before the 90's.... but I think there were a couple others in the pro level as well. I had an Tama Artstar Custom with the inner vertical from around 90'.

The cheaper luan shells I remember seeing quite a few with the vertical maybe for strength. The last gen Yamaha RTC was made out of a similar wood and those also had a vertical interior. Yamaha NEVER uses a vertical interior except on that wood.

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